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A post I read on another forum I frequent...

In here you will see some things that even people on this board have quoted

-Opiates of the masses -

-From each according to his ability to each according to his need -

- Power corrupts ...._

I don't think there is any doubt, after listening to Obama's (and Michelle's) speeches; as well as looking at their various relationships and associations, that this is what they desire for our country.

These ideas were taken from many sources. If you have read any of Marx you will realize that this is the road we are headed down if Obama is elected. Is this what we really want? The famous saying - "There are none so blind as those that will not see" comes to mind. I would change that to say "There are none so blind as those that will not do their own research; and who depend on someone who may have another agenda to do their thinking for them."

According to Marx, socialism is a stage on the way to communism.

Utopia as Karl Marx envisioned it has three main characteristics. The first concept is that there should be no government, no central controlling body allocating resources. If something needs doing then some person, or group of people, will just do it for the good of all. Second there will to be no private ownership of anything. All things shall be held in common. If you need something, just take it. ("From each according to his abilities; to each according to his need.") Finally, there will be no religion. Marx was of the opinion that religion was created by the rich and the powerful to keep the lower classes down by pacifying them with the promise of a better existence in the fictional next life, if they accepted their lot in this life. ("Religion is the opiate of the masses.")

Marxism appeals to an innate sense of fairness in people. Nobody has more than anyone else. Everyone works for the good of everyone else. The problem is that Marx could not envision a way to get to his Utopian society beyond the masses violently overthrowing their oppressors. He also had a serious misunderstanding of human nature.

There have been various attempts to get to this Marxist ideal over the years which usually started with the creation of a socialist government. Humans aren't psychologically ready to live Marxism, so those that desire this "Utopia" realize that there needs to be a government formed or elected which will take everything away from them and train them to work for the good of all. Hence the creation of a interim socialist government. In the socialist era, the government owns everything and allows the allocation of all resources. Since the people own nothing they must now learn to do everything for the good of the whole. Finally after the people have been properly trained, the government is disbanded and the Marxist utopia is achieved.

However, anyone can see from this that human nature gets in the way. The people in power start to enjoy the power ("Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely") hence they begin to act to ensure they remain in power. Also, a very broad lazy streak runs through much of humanity. Most people only do as much work as they have to in order to survive. If the government is going to take from Joe the plumber and give it to me, then why do I need to work? Joe then sees that his hard work is going to help support me, a lazy bum who doesn't contribute anything myself, and thinks why should I bother. This normal human thought process means that the people never reach a state where the government, even if it were inclined to do so, can step aside. And the corruption just continues to fester.

Marxism and communism were initially the same thing. However as people tried to institute them, Marxism became the ideal that can never be achieved and communism came to be synonymous with the failed, corrupt, transitional, utrasocialist governments.

Socialism is any form of government that takes control of various industries away from the private sector (such as the Coal Industry?). All governments have some elements of socialism in the mix because there are just some things that the private sector cannot do. The current debate is over just how much the government should do.
 

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it sucks to say but now we can do nothing but hope he does good. i hate him with all my heart but he is now our el presidente.... soo prey to god he can do his job right. i just hope this country doesnt go into the shit hole any worse than it is.
 

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it sucks to say but now we can do nothing but hope he does good. i hate him with all my heart but he is now our el presidente.... soo prey to god he can do his job right. i just hope this country doesnt go into the shit hole any worse than it is.
I'm with you on this one, I just hope that his whole "change" thing works out for the best and he somewhat brings this shitty economy back.

In the mean time everyone better stock up on extra rounds, from what I understand guns will be banned or so damn expensive it will be hard to afford ammunition.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The Fall of Democracy:

When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world’s great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have a progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.

Alexander Tyler (1770)
 

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I love how you get all your ideas and opinions about Obama from someone else. LOL
Try thinking for yourself for once. (oh wait, that already didnt work)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
and you never got any of you idea's from any one else... I forgot you discovered and invented everything. Go Big D he has all the answers to life.
 

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and you never got any of you idea's from any one else... I forgot you discovered and invented everything. Go Big D he has all the answers to life.
I actually was not for Obama when he first accepted to campaign as president when I heard about that guy that said they did coke together and had sex. HAHA After doing lots of research, and finding out that guy was a fraud, and comparing both Obama's and McCain's views from various sources, (not biased republican, democrat-smearing websites), I made an informed decision by who best represented the views and ideas that I was looking for in a president and made my decision, and my vote helped get him into office.
Look beyond those websites JV, you will find that those are so full of bullshit its quite comical.
 

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Obama would never have been elected if he had McCain's credentials.

Johnvon,

The republican party had 8 years to convince the country that their way was better. You have no one to blame but the people you elected.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
well see. I hope and i really do hope Oboma is a great president. but like i said well see. One reason i post up what I post up, because I see them as warning signs. When Oboma and the Democrats say and do these things they are a path to the destruction of the American dream and the american way of life. I want to choose my own destiny and you can choose yours but I don't want the government telling me what to do with my money. Or redistributing my wealth. Natalie is working hard to become MD and i am just trying to finish my Bachelors in liberal arts, from their i don't know wear i will go but we will one day be the people who's wealth is redistributed. and i don't want that.
 

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Doood! I don't want to lecture, and I realize that I don't know you: Liberal arts is not the most marketable place to be in the work force. If you're going to invest the time and money to go to college, pick something that will get you a job when you graduate. [/lecture]
 

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+1 some jobs view my certifications higher than a AA liberal arts degree. But any degree is better than no degree and will definitely get you further, so congrats to that.
 

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i odnt think that it everythin was bushes fault honestly. this bad economic times were bound to happen and he happened to be the president in office. if it was any other president he would of been fucked also. he made a few bad calls, but what the fuck he is president you cant please everyone. if everyones little god oboma was president the last 8 years and went through these times everyone would fuckin hate him.

and i hope to god oboma does what he said he can do or else we are all fucked. his plan is either gonna help a little.. again i say a little if any or fuck us in a huge whole worse than ever.
 

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FUCK FOURLOKO!!
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or maybe as our president he will write a book and wait for the economy to come back like it always does. Then he will take credit and the dems will think they fixed the world. It has had plenty of downslopes and upslopes and I really doubt whatever president that is in office at the time is behind any of it.

I suppose Bush is behind the foreign markets plummeting as well as our own. The media has made this country hate bush. Fucking country full of sheep.
 

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So your saying that
economy fails: Obama's fault
economy works out: it came back on its own like it always does

???
 

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So your saying that
economy fails: Obama's fault
economy works out: it came back on its own like it always does

???
huh? Quote me and highlight the part where I said anything about economy failure= obama's fault... It doesn't matter whether McCain or Obama made it in, the economy will come back.
 

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HattoriHanzo, You said you did a lot of your own research before making your presidential candidate decision.. I've asked a ridiculous amount of people what about Obama made them vote for him. I haven't gotten a decent answer yet. I really had hope that Predokk here on the board would be able to give me a good answer but from what he posted, the only reason I can see that him and his family voted in Obama's favor was based on a personal level. Sorry but most of the country has not had the pleasure of working with any presidential candidate. So far the best answer I have gotten was that Palin wasn't right for office. SO...

I think McCain would have been better for the position because for one he is old. He has been around to experience many things in and out of office but I highly doubt he will be dead in the next eight years. He has massive amounts of military experience and that is very valuable at this time. He has stepped out of line and pissed off the republicans to stand up what he believes in. I liked that alot. Oh and he isn't a lawyer. Your turn whoever. Please enlighten me why this country elected Obama besides the fact that he spent over 1 BILLION dollars giving McCain a bad name.
 

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HattoriHanzo, You said you did a lot of your own research before making your presidential candidate decision.. I've asked a ridiculous amount of people what about Obama made them vote for him. I haven't gotten a decent answer yet. ...
I'm registered Independent and voted for both d's and r's in this election. I'm not unbiased, but these are my reasons as well as some rebuttals of what I've read on this an many other forums.

When we are done discussing this please remember that I can't stand most Mark IV turbo Poopra owners, and will continue to give them shit any chance I get. If you relate to my views (or disagree) don't feel that it will in any way make me more sympathetic to the ridiculous effort of trying to make one of those cars run a decent 1/4 mile E.T. They are and will always be dyno queens!

On to your question:

Debates: Obama answered the questions. He gave examples and some details as to how he plans to address each of the questions asked. McCain vaguely stated that, "I know how to fix the problem..." but never offered any facts or data. I'm an engineer, I respond well to data, and have little patience for BS.

Education: Obama, Harvard law, lots of other secondary education. His wife is the same story. Biden BA in history, Political Science, and Juris Doctor from Syracuse. McCain, bottom of his class in the Naval academy. Palin, aimlessly took classes at multiple colleges and finally found her way to a sub par degree (Johnvon, change your major!).

Experience: Everyone touts McCains experience. Well, the country is at war on 2 fronts, the economy sucks ass, a lot of companies (including mine) are facing "headcount reductions." McCain is a republican and in this case I vote for guilt by association. Bring in the new guy, he can't do much worse.

Morality: This was not an issue to me, but Republicans often bring up moral issues to distract for what I feel is more important. McCain, self proclaimed womanizer, cheated on his wife. Palin, unwed pregnant daughter. Obama.... the worst thing the press could dig up on him was a real estate deal that was by no means illegal nor immoral. We just elected a minority as president. The guy would have to be pretty damn clean to get past the years of bigotry and win a landslide election. We looked for something bad on this guy and couldn't really find shit.

"Obama is a good talker": Give me a fucking break! Aside from 1 person on this board, most of us have never met either man. How in the hell are we supposed to judge them (yes I said judge them)? We know what we read, watch, and hear. Obama might be a good talker, but if McCain is the better candidate he did a very poor job of convincing anyone.

Later,

Greg

You mentioned McCain's military experience. Yes, he was a POW. Please explain how this prepares him to be president.
 

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wow. finally. I have been asking people for months to give me a reason for voting Obama and you are the very first person to do so. Just so you know, I by no means voted a straight republican ticket. I'm not sore about Obama winning. He is now my president and I can accept that. I hope he can do some good for this country over the next four years.
 

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McCain, self proclaimed womanizer, cheated on his wife. Palin, unwed pregnant daughter.
people are fuckin stupid for even bringing these reason up for not voting for them. just because your daughter gets pregnant and isnt married at what like 16 or 17 whatever age she is doesnt mean they are bad parents or people. i fuckin hate that bull shit. leave people personal life out of the election.

just like joe the plummer guy. oboma brings talks to him one day and he ask a bunch of questions. then all of a sudden obama is referencing to him alot, so what does the press do, they look into his backround and make joe the plummer(regular civilian) look bad. fuck the press and fuck anyone that bases their vote decision on someones personal life. it is about what they can do for the country.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
GS and hat...I know, I know, my Bachelor's in liberal arts is not worth much, but i am almost threw with it. Trust me I wan't to be a physicits or a chemisist, but i decided that within the last year. as long as i keep getting lots of cash from the army ($1,300 tax free each month) i will keep going to school.
 
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